While natural gas prices are skyrocketing, Bart Dehue, green heat program manager at Vattenfall, talks with undisguised enthusiasm about the alternatives: sustainable heat from residual heat, geothermal energy and biomass. And he vents about the permit procedures that sometimes take longer than the construction of a heating network. Disinformation fuels polarization in the debate on biomass, he sees. “If all these sustainability criteria were checked for all raw materials we use in the Netherlands, the world would be a better place,” Dehue sighs. Biomass supplies fifty to sixty percent of the sustainable energy in the Netherlands and the EU. Dehue: “It's not a matter of whether, but about how and where and with what rules.” There is no time to lose, he believes: climate ambitions must be significantly increased during this cabinet formation, in line with the EU plans Fit for 55. Bart Dehue recently joined the board of the Dutch Sustainable Energy Association (NVDE).
What must be included in the new coalition agreement?
“Government, what is that? (laughs) If that coalition agreement ever comes into being! It is an open door, but very important: the climate ambitions must be significantly increased so that they are in line with the EU plans Fit for 55. We need higher objectives, while we are not yet even on track for the current goals. At the same time, we must also maintain support and combat energy poverty. We must pay for the transition from general resources, not from energy storage. Olof van der Gaag rightly said that we did not finance the Delta Works from the surcharge on the water board tax. Fortunately, we saw the first movement for this on Budget Day. Now we have to speed up. The benchmark year 2030 is really very soon because the lead times for sustainable energy projects are long.
What do you want to achieve in the NVDE board?
“I would like to contribute to the heat transition. We must accelerate on all fronts, but in practice the heat transition appears to be more complex than previously thought and is not happening fast enough. What makes the Dutch Sustainable Energy Association (NVDE) unique is that it brings together different energy sectors. This allows it to strengthen the link between different sectors, for example between the heat and electricity sectors. For example, electric boilers can absorb the peaks of solar and wind energy and store the heat produced in a heating network. And you can design heat networks in such a way that you do not need much electricity in the winter, when the individual heat pumps already need a lot of power, in order to reduce the load on the electricity grid at these peak times. It helps that the atmosphere in the NVDE is constructive and open. Of course, there are sometimes issues where interests conflict between sectors, but then personal relationships appear to be at least as important to resolve the issue as substantive arguments. If you get along with people, you will find a solution together.”
You are Program Manager Green Heat at Vattenfall. What does that mean?
“At Vattenfall I am responsible for making our heating networks more sustainable. That's great work because the heat transition is quite difficult. Making the built environment sustainable in particular is a complex issue, technically, economically and in terms of support. We need geothermal, aquathermal, biomass and heat networks with different temperatures. I find the puzzle of all these facets together very interesting and I hope with my efforts to contribute to a long list of sustainable heat sources in the Netherlands.”
How many houses in the Netherlands get their heat from Vattenfall?
“We supply heat to 145.000 homes and quite a few major consumers. If you convert these to home equivalents, there are 245.000 in total. Many. It is a third of the total connections to heating networks in the Netherlands.”
How sustainable does Vattenfall want to become?
“Company-wide, Vattenfall committed last month to science-based targets aimed at a maximum 1,5 degree temperature increase worldwide. This means that we want to emit 77 percent less CO2 in 2030, compared to 2017. By 2040 we want to emit no net emissions. We will use four times more solar and wind energy, and 25 times more charging stations. We will also help reduce customer emissions, including in industry, by electrifying. In Sweden we are working on a steel producer that will emit much less CO2. We are going to phase out the coal-fired power stations in Germany. There is still much to do. Personally, I like that the company is very seriously committed to this. That makes my job easier in a way.”
And how sustainable will the heat be?
“We have a heat label per heat network. In 2020, heat from our heating networks already emitted on average 57 percent less CO2 than a gas boiler at home. This will gradually increase to 100 percent, by 2040 at the latest. The gas-fired heat sources will be replaced by a mix of sustainable sources including geothermal energy, residual heat, biomass and electric boilers. If you look specifically at residual heat, Amsterdam has many data centers, and the port of Rotterdam has many industries that can supply residual heat. Today's residual heat sources are not those of twenty years' time because industry will also become greener. But I think you always keep residual heat. For example, in the future, electrolysers will produce residual heat during the production of hydrogen. And we are going to phase out oil refineries, but biorefinery also produces residual heat.
In addition to residual heat, we are developing geothermal and aquathermal sources in several networks and we are working on the largest E-boiler in Western Europe for the heating network of Amsterdam, Diemen and Almere.
If we can skate for a few days, we need extra capacity. On the one hand, there is a challenge to better insulate homes, which not only reduces energy bills but also reduces peak demand for heat. But there will always be peak demand. Today we supply this through a combination of buffering and peak boilers. These peak boilers are rarely switched on, but they are important for security of supply on cold days. Today they still run on natural gas. In the future this will be replaced by hydrogen, for example. All in all, the heating networks of the future will consist of a broad mix of sustainable sources.
And what are obstacles?
“Sustainable heat sources are now even more expensive than fossil. So you need SDE++ subsidy. Due to the ranking of applications, heating projects are now not being considered. So-called partitions have been announced within the subsidy scheme, with which part of the budget is earmarked for heating projects. It is important that they arrive quickly. In 2020, there is almost no subsidy available for heat. I'm concerned that the bulkheads won't come until 2023. Before you know whether you will receive the subsidy, it will be 2024 and after that you will still have a realization period of a few years. Then it will be 2030, the year in which we want to achieve climate goals. We have been saying this since the Climate Agreement was drawn up, but not everyone was convinced of the need for such partitions at the time. We now find that this need is indeed there. Then it cannot be the case that it will take another two years before they are introduced.”
How long does it take to get a heating project off the ground?
“Project lead times are very long. For heat projects of any scale, five years is very fast, it usually takes five to ten years. It is good that we handle permit processes very carefully in the Netherlands. If there are parties with objections, we must look at them carefully. But it's taking too long now. You have been busy with research and the processing time of the permit application for over two years. And for objections and appeals, which occur more often if the project takes place close to homes, this adds 2,5 years. You have been working on the permit for four to five years. I wonder why that objection and appeal has to take 2,5 years. Can that really not be done faster? These long procedures are at odds with the required speed in the transition. Views submitted early in the process often lead to useful changes. As a result of appeals and objections, usually not much changes. It will then only be checked whether the permit was correctly issued. The courts are so busy that a legal step often takes a year or more. And it is unclear how long it will last: you are on the pile, you hear, for six weeks. And then you get a message that it will take another six weeks, and then again. In the meantime, you have a project team waiting. Shame."
And support?
“Support is really an issue. Biomass is the most prominent example, but it also plays a role in geothermal energy. The plug was recently pulled on a geothermal project in Nieuwegein. There was a group of vocal residents in resistance. The municipality said that the choice of location had to be made more carefully. Now an assessment framework must first be submitted to the municipal council. It'll be two years later. I am often asked whether we can accelerate geothermal energy. But if you accelerate in the beginning, for example with the choice of location, and you therefore have no support, then things will eventually go slower. What doesn't help is the misinformation that is often spread via social media and sometimes also via mainstream media. For local residents, there are aspects of heating projects that I can imagine you have questions about, such as earthquake risk or air quality. There is a task for the government and also for the NVDE to provide good information and refute nonsense. Relatively small groups that are strongly opposed have a great effect on the broader image.”
What should the NVDE focus on in the coming years?
“Support and information, hopefully it helps. When the geothermal industry explains that geothermal is OK, it sounds more suspicious. The NVDE is broader and technology neutral, therefore more reliable. It is also good in the biomass debate that the NVDE says that you need biomass. Substantiated arguments help, although you will never reach some of the opponents. The NVDE is also excellently positioned to connect the electricity and heating sectors. She can provide cross-technical advice to the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on how, for example, the SDE++ as a whole can work better. The NVDE has the task of bringing everyone together.”
You have been at the center of the discussion about the sustainability of biomass for decades. What fascinates you about this?
"Fascinating? (laughs) It's a subject that's difficult to get rid of. You need all options for the climate challenge. Biomass is not the holy grail. Like other solutions, it also has disadvantages. But we no longer have the luxury of ruling out certain options. You often hear in debates: then we don't do biomass. That ignores the hard fact that you need it to achieve the climate goals. Biomass supplies fifty to sixty percent of the sustainable energy in the Netherlands and the EU. It is not a matter of if, but of how and where and with what rules.”
How do you deal with the intense polarization?
“I think the polarization about biomass is really unfortunate. It doesn't help if parties dig themselves into trenches and just sling mud. This means that the nuance disappears and it becomes very difficult to arrive at a joint solution. I try to stay constructive and make time for constructive conversations. I don't do a TV program like the Hofbar because it doesn't exactly lend itself to a constructive conversation. But if you can sit quietly with people with concerns about biomass, without cameras, and you can peel away layer by layer, you can remove a lot of concerns. The opinions then appear to be a lot less far apart than you would think based on, for example, the Hofbar. There is a basis for the use of biomass, with conditions. The biomassfeiten.nl platform offers information and response on social media. It is good that this is there to bring more factual information into the debate.
Does biomass from outside the EU have a future?
“I'm surprised that it makes such a difference with biomass whether it comes from outside the EU. Almost all our stuff comes from outside the EU: Teslas, solar panels, jeans, food. We should look less black and white at whether it comes from the EU. Does this offer climate benefits; does it come from sustainably managed forests? These are questions that we must ask critically. Of course you must be able to demonstrate that biomass comes from responsible sources. That said, there are few sectors where so many strict requirements are imposed on the source as with biomass. And those requirements are independently tested. No system is perfect, but people underestimate how much control there is. Various criteria are tested, including biodiversity, soil health and that less is cut down than grows so that our forests continue to grow in size. The auditor who checks this must again be approved by the Dutch ministry. If these types of criteria were checked for all raw materials we use in the Netherlands, the world would be a better place. The use of biomass offers major climate benefits, even if you include transport, and that benefit is increasing because our natural gas comes from further afield now that we have become an importer of gas. So I certainly see a role for demonstrably sustainable biomass.”
You are a member of the Cake LinkedIn group. Because?
“That's a coincidence. I don't spend time on social media, not even LinkedIn. That is a conscious choice. That is often very much the issue of the day. It may sound corny, but I focus on the dot on the horizon. The long-term projects for sustainable heat require determination and vision.”
How sustainably do you live and travel?
“I live in a fairly new houseboat. During construction, it was extra well insulated with triple glazing throughout and it is equipped with balanced ventilation with heat recovery and solar panels. We still have natural gas. According to Utrecht's heat transition vision, we are one of the first neighborhoods to switch away from gas and district heating is the preferred solution for this neighborhood. So I will soon ask Eneco, the operator of the heating network in Utrecht, when I will be connected. Furthermore, I am an avid rock climber, and that is difficult in the Netherlands. I regularly go to Belgium, France and Germany to climb. I limit flying as much as possible. And it is high time for an electric family car that fits all climbing gear.”
Source: www.nvde.nl
